Alive In Baghdad Apaches Over Baghdad

Apaches Over Baghdad - 02.19.2007
Comments


go fuck yourself - 02/19/2007 22:50:53

The apaches have become a nuisance? More than Saddam having one of his henchmen come over and send you to the gallows? The Shiites are killing the Sunnis and vice versa at the toll of around 100 a month. The US graciously comes in to help this ravaged country out from under a terrible person, Saddam Hussein, only to have this crap posted. If you were my neighbor, let’s just say we would have words. Meaning, I would silence you by knocking your fuckin’ teeth out. I don’t care if you are black, white, red, yellow, or wearing a turbin; this type of thanklessness for Americans trying to restore your country is unacceptable and not appreciated. Now let me go watch some “Deadwood” you fuckin’ cocksucker.


freddie - 02/20/2007 14:02:21

g-f-y,
God you are an ignorant bastard. Sunnis and Shiites WEREN’T killing each other 6 years ago.
To watch dead wood, you need to go no further that the nearest mirror.


Blade - 02/20/2007 15:20:34

Well, since the Iraqis are so unappreciative of our efforts, let just lesve. It is their country, isn’t it?


Asim - 02/20/2007 23:07:42

Hey Freddie

I second that comment!!….g-f-y you got some balls even trying to start a war your not gonna win..so go back and talk to your pal Bush who knows something about losing…..

later


Nick - 02/21/2007 00:05:15

I’ve been watching your podcast a little while, the last few episodes anyway, and I understand the frustration with what’s going on in your country. The thing that I haven’t quite gotten is:

- what do you want the US to do?
> leave immediately?
> leave in a staged manner?
> refocus somehow?

As an American, I’m not sure what we should be doing and what the Iraqi people want. Pulling out immediately seems like it could release violence and anarchy, but I’m not very hopeful with how poorly we’ve failed in what should have been the primary goal - rebuilding & assisting getting the country back up and running to pre-war levels.


PsycoReal - 02/21/2007 10:35:11

Look, my friend: I´m brazilian. Did ever have heard about Brazil? That´s all right… Try to forget that first comment. It´s a unfortunate person. Most of north-americans - like him - don´t know what is freedom or what is a human being. They just know what is USA and their imposition of ideas like it was absolutely truth. Forgive him. He´s poor. Althoug you have my respect and my admiration. You are between stupid americans and stupid iraqis. I´m sorry for that. Remind me: we are a people, the human people. Let´s enjoy our differences. God bless Iraqi people! Thanks for your time.


freddie - 02/21/2007 11:49:49

@ Nick,
As a fellow American, I appreciate your concern but some things seems obvious.

If I were an Iraqi, I would want us to leave yesterday or sooner.

Re: violence and anarchy? They already have that, thanks to us.
Re: Rebuilding and assisting? Hmmmm, six years ago, there was little that NEEDED re-building.
Re: refocus somehow? Yes, I would suggest starting LOCALLY, like New Orleans, health care, media reform, political reform and education. GOD, do we need education!


olivebranch - 02/22/2007 01:54:12

Dear G-F-Y, I am going to point out exactly how educated and informed you are not, in regard to Iraq at very least.

Quote: “More than Saddam having one of his henchmen come over and send you to the gallows?”

- most Iraqi families did suffer under Saddam, but less from his trenchman than from the stupid descisions Saddam made and the notorious wars.

Quote: “The Shiites are killing the Sunnis and vice versa at the toll of around 100 a month.”

- *cough* I believe the number is much closer to 100 a day; but that wouldn’t happen if there had been an improvement in healthcare, water, electricity and employment post-war as had been promised to Iraqi’s pre-war. Were they not to be a “token of democracy” which the other Middle Eastern states would “envy” and “follow”. The first part of democracy is making an equal, acceptable standard of living for all peoples, maybe THEN they can work out their reconcilliation issues.

Quote: “If you were my neighbor, let’s just say we would have words. Meaning, I would silence you by knocking your fuckin’ teeth out.”

- This makes it evident that you truely oppose the ideas of reconciliation and freedom of thought.

“I don’t care if you are black, white, red, yellow, or wearing a turbin”

- Just don’t disagree with me on any issue ever, see above for reason why.

“This type of thanklessness for Americans trying to restore your country is unacceptable and not appreciated.”

- ok, so say I was trying to build a small, easily producable nuclear reactor which would produce no wastefull left overs and put out more energy than current nuclear technology at a lower cost- which would potentiall save the world from Global Warming; but I failed and killed, injured or displaced 3/4 of the people in your neighbourhood, your street and even your family in the process. Would you be thankfull to me for trying so very unsuccesfully?

Quote: “Now let me go watch some “Deadwood” you fuckin’ cocksucker.”

I’ll end this post here, and start a-fresh to respond to some of the other comments left by more reasonable, but still somewhat ill-informed persons!!!


olivebranch - 02/22/2007 02:05:59

This one goes out to freddie:

Quote: “If I were an Iraqi, I would want us to leave yesterday or sooner.”

You are not an Iraqi and assumedly have never lived under an occupation such as is faced by Iraq now, nor through the sectarian struggle either. It is true to say that if by yesterday, you mean 2-3 years ago after a very quick rebuild of Iraq’s most basic infrastructure; you would be correct.

But in my relatively well informed opinion I think many many many Iraqi’s would not support an immediate withdrawal now, nor any time in the last 6 months nor since this new Government took power. Unfortunately the sectarian issues going on cannot be left to forment themselves; it is not a civil-war per-say since most Iraqi civilians are too educated to get involved in such a war.

Millions are displaced internally and abroad.

The Coalition forces must not leave without first securing Baghdad and HOLDING it secure for six months or so to give the new government a chance at reconcilliation and rebuilding the internal infrastructure to produce an acceptable standard of living for the average Iraqi whether they are Sunni, Shia, Kurd, Shabak, Yezidi, Christian, Athiest or any of any other “sect”.

http://olivebranchoptimism.net

This is the Olivebranch Network, there I created a website//network blog barely a year and a month ago, all the writing about Iraq on that website is written by actual self-chosen Iraqi people, some few of them still in Iraq today.

Go read some Iraqi voices and if you wish try contacting some of those Iraqi’s themselves; they will tell you what an Iraqi thinks. Your own peace-time logic does not prevail in a situation full of suffering as theres.

(p.s, I do not mean this so much to seem as an attack on you, more like it is my attempt to form a counter-argument to what I have heard said by so many persons who are still on my own-side of the fence (the anti-war activist side).

I want the war to end, but I mean I want an END to WAR IN IRAQ- not just an end to the COALITIONS partaking in that war.


olivebranch - 02/22/2007 02:14:19

I missed out one point when I said it is not a civil war; I forgot to add that there is however a major war going on between rival gangs, thugs and religiously extreme sectarian forces.

There is also a war going on between the occupiers and “insurgents”, but that is much less prominant in the Iraqi civilian death-toll and has different characteristics to the extremist warfare mentioned previously.


freddie - 02/22/2007 11:21:23

@ olivebranch,
Hmmm, “ill informed” eh.
I chat with a native Baghdadi daily (currently IN Baghdad), so I’m not totally out of touch.
“2-3 years ago after a quick rebuild…” FIVE years ago, there was nothing to re-build, only build. WE destroy something and then presume that WE should rebuild it. Preposterous!


Jhondie - 02/22/2007 17:55:17

There is an aweful lot of anger in this room. All the blog said was that helicopters are anoying. Ever been blown off your feet by a Chinook? These things are load and they sand blast you. True its harmless, but it does suck. Imagine if foreigners came to America and told us we had to be inside by 8pm and could not come out again until 6am. Would you not be anoyed? Hell we can’t even put up with Airline delays. As for the fighting words, relax guys. There has been enough fighting.


olivebranch - 02/23/2007 01:26:03

Amen Jhondie. sorry Freddie I did not mean ill-informed, that is probably too far stretched; I was a little revved by the other idiots comments.

As the founder//editor in chief of the Olivebranch Network I speak to about 100 different Iraqi’s regularly, many of them daily and many of them still in Baghdad. Still I find more and more complexities every day. I am even learning from them how to speak Iraqi Arabic- though I can’t read Arabic text nor speak much other than conversation so far.

My point was that an immediate pull out now is not wanted by the majority of those I know still living in Baghdad. They believe it would be a death sentance for them all, that is for all the secular persons still in Iraq. For all the educated, the professors, doctors, engineers etc.

I am sorry to have offended you; I just hear all to often “If I were an Iraqi this is what I’d want” and I just feel like saying “how would you know what you would want if your an iraqi??? Have you ever asked an Iraqi still living in Baghdad what THEY actually think?”

(nine out of ten times the answer is NO, to hear that you have cheers me muchly).

Luke(y)


phree - 02/23/2007 01:30:45

we are missing the point of the whole blog: to provide a truer point of view than the eschewed one than dominates our society via the mainstream media channels.

Jhondie is right, all the video is pointing out is the otherwise invisibleand therefore ignored consequences of living in a war zone, such as having an helicopter circle around over and over above your neighborhood.

Most of us can only relate to the situation to extent of our knowledge of about that situation, which in this case i would guess is very minimal since we mostly get blurb news that are shallow and one sided. And before we feel offended by bloggers commentary, remember that it is an opinion… also, before we feel as though we need to come into the defense of the USA, remember that the governments motivations were never altruistic, it has never been about people, or justice or ethics, or any other press friendly public relations stunt.

It has always been about strategic positioning in the middle east, about money, about resources, about the making a move to solidify and sustain american hegemony in the world stage. This has happened Eastern Europe, South America, etc…

G-F-Y: you are too typical… enough said!

Game of Risk anybody?


OIF 03-04 05-06 - 02/23/2007 08:19:19

As a soldier in the United States Army, in my personal opinion I think Apaches are loud and more than likely annoying to the iraqui community. We did not go to iraq with the intention of been loud and annoying, but it is definetly part of the long process of trying to defeat an unseen enemy which feeds from the innocence of it’s “own” country. I spent two years in Iraq and made a lot of friends. During the time I serve in Iraq I did notice that most people in Iraq are a pure of heart kind people. But there is maybe that 5 to 10 percent of “Iraqui Insurgents” that uses terrorism and intimidation as a weapon. I can proudly say that my unit did a really good job while in Iraq. Unfortunately, not all units work the same way, and they do not see the “WAR” like we do. We see it as an oportunity to help a country which at certain point of time was in need of that helping hand. I do not think the war had to go as long as it has. We should it take the “Regime” help rebuild the government in the process and leave, but…. that did not happen did it?…There are a lot of different factors to this war, the american tactic, the insurgency tactics. One thing for sure is that there is a lot of good people in Iraq and they deserve a normal life and not having to wake up to the sound of APACHES over head. hope it gets better!


freddie - 02/23/2007 13:44:04

@OIF,
A gentle hat-tip to you. You seem to have survived Hell with a modicum of humanity and civility.

A rather brief (take notice olivebranch) excerpt from a journal on the value of humanity, can be found here.
http://www.saturation.org/saturationblog/archives/001186.html


Ahmed - 02/24/2007 18:51:03

To OIF,
So according to you, it’s only 5-10% of the iraqi people managed to make the only “great” power of the world to lose control and be restless and wild like an animal for 4 years now! And its not that the vast majority of Iraqis are opposing the invasion and fighting it!
I think it’s a very naive view and non logical nor practical or realistic view.
A big part of the problem is you people who insist on misleading the American people that leads the whole world into hell. Be fair in your views please!


John Paul - 02/24/2007 22:38:00

I know, how dare those Iraqis complain that our magnificant freedom choppers are making too much noise and blowing up their family members!

If I were an Iraqi, I could be PROUD to have those things whizzing over my house when the freedom troopers storm it to “search” for “insurgents.”


Treasure of Baghdad - 02/25/2007 10:51:44

“go fuck yourself”,

Why don’t YOU go fuck yourself! You would give Iraq and the United States of America a huge favor if you do that…

We were far more better under the tyrant than under your stupid freedom which brought nothing to Iraq but destruction and death. I really hope one day you personally face what Iraqis are facing so that you go inside your house, lock yourself, be afraid all the time, and then fuck yourself… Nice ha??!

John Paul,

I am an Iraqi and I feel disgusted when I see the helicopters hovering over my house. I feel ashamed of the government and the people we voted for, those who allowed these apaches warplanes destroyed our beautiful Baghdad. Don’t you ever forget that we never forget how these same apaches destroyed our Baghdad twice. Once in 1991 and second in 2003.

Freedom?! What freedom? The freedom of having militias backed by the puppets your government brought? or the freedom of the insurgents who were people having jobs whom you turned to be terrorists after depriving from their jobs?

But you know what? You don’t care because you are safe. and that’s it! You don’t care if Iraqis, Lebanese, or Palestinians die since you are safe.

Dear AIB,

Keep up the good work!


omar - 02/25/2007 11:04:09

ok…mr.fuck yourself is that your real name??? i think it’s

thank you for your comment that show us who you are.. and i think if you lived in Iraq for one week you will agree with all of us ..ill ask you a qustion .. do bleav in that suuni ans shi’et are really killing each other? answer you slef about that qustion and go watch some music and have some popcorn better from watching our blog cuz you just dont know thats your proplem…


Kufr al-Amriki - 02/25/2007 13:25:28

I’ve seen and heard this Omar’s duplicitious work before.

“Oh the Apaches are bothering my babies..”

LOL, more than a Shi’ite death squad? more than a Sunni car bomb?

His ilk is like the nagging wife, who whines and complains that it’s too hot and when you turn up the thermostat for her, she bitches 5 minutes later that it’s to hot.

The Omar type will always complain and ask for hand-outs. His type will never help the new Iraqi Govt. or join the Iraqi Army and put an end to al-Qaeda, the Sunni terrorists, the car bombers or the Shi’ite death squads.

Unfortunately there are too many Iraqi citizens who are just like Omar, they are quick to extend their hand and demand goods and services BUT are completely unwilling to help the new Iraqi Government. This is the main reason why other Arab countries don’t want anything to do with Iraqi citizens.

:-)


olivebranch - 03/09/2007 07:00:18

Kufr al-Amriki

May I ask from where you are writing these comments? From a safe little home somewhere in a war-free zone?

Tell me, by insulting the female race using the generic generalization of “nagging wife”- and then in your attempt to justify it, you even confused the word “hot” for “cold”.

You then put Omar into a category from only a couple of sentances constructed in broken english, that were directed as a response against someone who had insulted his people and probably his pride. An ignorant gesture at best; a display of the true level of your ignorance- in this case.

You should know before mouthing off, that an Iraqi army that is controlled by a non-secular, religiously extreme government would be inneffective at both stabilizing Baghdad and fighting “al-Qaeda” etc. The military solutions have not been successfull to this day out of political blunder, not lack of ability.

This is also why the previous statements about 10% of Iraqi’s supporting insurgency could have some merit, though I would wager the number somewhat higher than that, but still in a significant minority. 10% of Iraqi’s would still be 2.4 million people, and if 2.4 million people are in a war in their home towns, you can expect difficulty.

But when politicians insite the rest of the population, or even just another significant minority of the population this exponentially escalates the problem.

And to further highlight your ignorance I would have you know that upwards of 1.7 MILLION IRAQIS have settled in their generous neighbouring countries over the last 4 years- though I’m not sure your simple brain can quite grasp the impacts of that kind of migration.

Those countries may be turning away Iraqi’s now and it hurts me to see it; especially from Iran who could potentially settle many Iraqi’s temporarily. Jordan has 700,000 declared Iraqi refugee’s and probably many more undeclared.

There is no simple blame or guilt to be placed over this situation, but the bulk of those who can have blame placed upon them are politicians (and religious figures)- on all ends of the spectrum.


Qwaider Planet - 03/19/2007 23:51:56

Four Candles blown Out…

As my fingers were flipping through today’s papers, my eyes were craned to the pictures the articles…


Sherm - 03/20/2007 14:26:47

Well there’s already a lot of anger going around over this one, but I’m going to toss my two cents in anyways.

Omar, I understand that the Apaches are annoying. I’m sorry that they keep sick people and small children awake (this may read as patronizing, but I’m being serious here). I know that they’re a symbol of American occupation, and that this probably makes many Iraqis uncomfortable at best. The problem is that, as annoying as they are, they are vital to the security of both Iraqi citizens and to American troops. Whatever those people are going through, and I’m sure its hell right now, it would be exponentially worse without close air support. You have my word on that. Complain about them if you must, but they are a necessary evil right now. Sorry.

Olive Branch, I read everything that you posted commentwise on this page, and I was with you until the last one. I’m afraid that, as angry as it obviously made you, Kufr has a valid criticism here. I can’t speak to any sexist motivations his comparison might have had, but it is effective in conveying his idea, and it seems a valid point. Convert it to ‘nagging partner’ or ‘nagging child’ if you can’t get past the language to understand the point. Also, you went way overboard in one other place on that post:

“You should know before mouthing off, that an Iraqi army that is controlled by a non-secular, religiously extreme government would be inneffective at both stabilizing Baghdad and fighting “al-Qaeda” etc. The military solutions have not been successfull to this day out of political blunder, not lack of ability.”

I’m not sure what the first sentence has to do with the second one, but you seem to think that the undertrained, underequipped, inexperienced new Iraqi army is possessed of ability and is simply being hindered by politics. I’m not sure how you arrived at this conclusion, but there is no way these guys are ready for ‘Prime Time’ yet. Counter-insurgency is not a skill that a fighting force learns overnight, and its not easily taught. Ask any Marine or Ranger if you don’t believe that.


Knight - 03/20/2007 17:47:27

Listening to the commentary of this video once again reminds me why I felt Iraq as a society was as confused as a small child during the time I spent there. Sorry the helicopters are a nuisance. I know it’s hard for you understand, BUT THEY ARE TRYING TO GET BAD GUYS SO THEY WON’T HAVE TO BE THERE ANYMORE.


Con - 09/22/2007 16:49:19

Omar, if your little buddies wouldn t attack our convoys…we wouldnt have to fly so low. im sorry for your incovience and the strain on your hearing while we are out there trying to make you pathetic little country safer. Im sorry my buddy had to die so that you could stay alive to complain about the little babies and the sick people not getting any sleep.

Sorry about all that Omar


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